The Future Of The PMP, What It Lacks, And How To Fill The Gaps

Read The Transcript:

We’re trying out transcribing our podcasts using a software program. Please forgive any typos as the bot isn’t correct 100% of the time.

Galen Low: There's a lot of change afoot in the world of project management certifications, and the Project Management Institute's PMP designation is no exception. In some ways it makes a lot of sense. The way project teams collaborate is changing continuously, our understanding of what makes a great leader is evolving, and the spectrum of projects we're taking on is broadening.

But is it enough just to get a PMP designation and move on? Does it teach the more human elements of the role? And is it evolving rapidly enough to keep pace with other project management training? 

If some of the recent changes to the PMP certification process have left you with even more questions than you had before, keep listening.

In this second part of our two-part series on the state of the PMP, we're going to be highlighting what skills a PMP certification doesn't necessarily teach you, how to fill those gaps through professional development, and what the future holds for PMI and the PMP designation.

Hey folks, thanks for tuning in. My name is Galen Low with the Digital Project Manager. We are a community of digital professionals on a mission to help each other get skilled, get confident, and get connected so that we can amplify the value of project management in a digital world. If you wanna hear more about that, head on over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com.

Is it enough just to get a PMP these days? Like what is going to be missing in your tool belt as a project manager if all you do is maybe that self-study, read that book, right? Like take that exam and then to your point, I've arrived, but what are some of the things that, you know, this body of knowledge doesn't necessarily prepare you for?

Crystal Richards: Oh, people. I mean, they've gotten kind of better. But I mean, I think that's also what I bring in. I mean, the how you are seeing me, this is exactly how I am when I teach. So I bring in the jokes and the levity, but it really is the people. So we talk about, right, creating a project management plan and people are like, you know, nobody has time for that Crystal.

I said, oh yeah, but do you have time to have 15 different meetings restating what you said? This plan allows you to address the amnesia that people have during the course of a project. As well as better practice, get people signing off on it so that when they ask you, well, why are we doing this? And it's say, oh, well, on page 25 where you signed off.

This is what, and of course you would do much more differently. But I think the people aspect, and there's a sentence in the 7th edition of the PMBOK guide, which I just think is so profound. People drive projects. Period. That is their one sentence. And it's so true. It is the people in the organization who say, Hey, I want this to happen.

It is the people who you have to tap into. And the thing about people—it's something I always say in my class—they come with, and then I pause. People are like issues, emotions, stuff, baggage. It's all those things that you have to navigate, work through. You come with your own stuff and you have to navigate and work through that.

We talk about like very briefly on emotional intelligence, but I think that's where having the professional development classes after you pass on managing upwards, managing across your peer group, managing when you don't have honestly formal authority. You were just like, you know, there was an email that went out with your name, and you were like, whatever.

And so you have to get people on your side and seeing the light and, you know, get out from the darkness. So it is, you know, just managing all those people and something that I've recognized and I come from the consulting world. And we call ourselves engagement managers, right? We just knew we had to manage the people.

And I find that those folks have an easier transition into just straight up project management, because they know I still have to engage all these people. The folks who tend to have struggle is that they were their own self. They were the technical person, the subject matter expert. And I was like, you're good at managing yourself, manage the whole project with all these people. 

Before, they could grumble with you as peers. Now, you have to delegate and kind of tell them what to do. And no one told you how to do that diplomatically. You're just thinking I'm the project manager, so I get to tell you what to do. And they're like...

Galen Low: Where's my project charter badge?

Crystal Richards: Right. And they're like, again, who made you boss of me?

And that's something that I wanna encourage folks, you know, whether it is getting a mentor, taking those leadership development courses, listening to LinkedIn Learning and getting that insight and just kind of figuring out what works for you. Short, like little story. So there's a concept that we learn about tacit knowledge and that's the knowledge that's really in people's heads and you know, based on their experience.

And I said, for example, I had a boss, he did some things that I just wouldn't do, just very questionable. When I was in a management position, my assistant manager, I just nailed it and I was surprised. She was like, that was so awesome, Crystal. How'd you know to do that? And I said, well, I thought about my old boss and I said he probably would do this.

I would do the opposite. Like it's just like, it's just based on that, you know, feels and experience and really how I would like to be managed. And that takes some finesse and comfort level and you're just always gonna be developing that and just know that's never gonna be always a right answer in a right way. 

Cuz people come with package, emotions, opinions, and you just have to kind of navigate and just go with the flow. And always remember, the ultimate mission of the project and that's why that charter for me is gold. Like, okay, lemme look at this chart. Okay, this is why we're doing it. This is a good thing. I'm not gonna quit just yet.

Galen Low: No, but I love that. Right? Like people drive projects. It could be the pessimistic, you could say people usually are the ones who mess up projects, right? With all that baggage. And I think it thematically something that comes up with the people that I talk to is now almost pining for this like silver bullet that like, is the course that you should take to become, you know, a good leader.

But I think the trick about it, like you said about mentorship, like you said about looking at examples of maybe bad examples of people who are being leaders, people who are interacting with people, and like taking all these inputs to kind of craft that within yourself because it's gonna be unique.

There's no textbook and certification for whatever, being a kind and charismatic, empathetic, respectful leader, you know. A) that would be far too many letters to put at the end of your name.

Crystal Richards: Oh, but people will try.

Galen Low: Our next course, yeah, Crystal and the DPM collaborate on. I love that. And I think that like that ties it right in, right?

Like you're gonna have some gaps. It's not a full package, reading the Project Management Body of Knowledge, which says it in the title, I know we shorten it a lot, but it's just a body of knowledge. It's like a bunch of stuff that we've learned, put together in a book. We'll get to 7th Edition in a bit, but I find some people have that expectation. 

They're like, okay, I've got all my tools in the bat belt. Now I'm like the best project manager, and it's like, it's that misconception, right, what you said earlier. Actually, this is for folks who've been doing it, folks who've been paying attention to how they interact with people as a informal manager with informal authority, you know, in high pressure situations.

And then you kind of go and do your PMP to like really crystallize that knowledge. No pun intended, but... 

Crystal Richards: Taken.

Galen Low: Like to put it all together. Yeah, there you go. I've arrived. No, I love that. 

Actually, maybe I should ask this as well, like maybe painting with a brush, but I'm picturing that's what indoor recess is kind of all about, right?

Like we get together, we know some stuff, but we're trying to just like talk it through, right? Like, I have this charter but nobody listens to me or whatever, or I did this charter, it's on a shelf somewhere, gathering dust, like what am I doing wrong? And like more of that human situational, you know, chaotic stuff that you just don't get.

You might learn a bit about in the textbook or through a course, but it's just kind of hard to hearse it when your situation is so unique. I mean, is that what Indoor Recess is all about?

Crystal Richards: Yeah, it's all of that. I mean, we get into the technical stuff where we will create a WBS if that's what the topic is. I'm changing it up in kind of a little shameless plug. 

It's, Indoor Recess is coming out April. So you'll hear more from me about that one, but a lot of people don't do risk management. Oh my gosh. Like that is so important. And I think I'm pretty much a bubbly, optimistic person, but I'm always thinking about risk. Well, what if this is happening?

And I went through that exercise. I have an internship right now, and I'm working with my intern where I had her create a risk register and she's like, you know, I've never gone this deep about it. And we really talked about coming up with the responses and it's all just so you're not, what do you do? But it's like, Okay, here's plan B.

Here's plan C around if this happens, and some are, you know, low priority, some are gonna be high priority, but it's just to stop and think. And that was something I remember one of my clients way back in the day where she said, what I love about the structure of, at least at the time I was teaching her based on the 6th Edition.

It just has prompts for you to stop and think and ask great questions. And that's really, and I have to give a shout out to a friend and really he's become a mentor of mine. Frank Gerard. You know, he said what he loves about the 6th Edition of the PMBOK guide is that it prompts you to ask questions.

Cause that's really what being a great project manager is all about. It's not about what my needs are and what I think the requirements are. It's about what the stakeholders needs are, and what they want and their requirements and negotiating with them. That's part of the people aspect of the give and take cuz we can't do it all.

You can't get a Cadillac on a Schlitz Malt liquor budget, like you can't get champagne like that. Like this is the budget we have, but I'm willing to hear and ask questions, why do you think you need this feature? Can we do this? Or scale back based on the budget we have? And doing the yes/no, or yes, we can do this if you can provide me with more resources or more money or something of that sort, so. 

Galen Low: Yeah, that balancing act. And I think a lot of folks, you know, they get into the role and they think the job is to say no. Sometimes it is, but in a lot of cases it's like, well, I mean, if that's what you really want, but we gotta reshuffle some of this stuff. And I love, like, I just love this conversation as well because, you know, it's so casual, colloquial, like we can language. And I think people pick up on like words like risk management and risk register and, you know, quantitative risk analysis, and they're like, it's opaque.

They're like, that sounds like, I needed to have, you know, done more math than I did in university. Whereas actually it's like a, you know, what do we need to be prepared for? Let's talk it through, because guess what? Like just to be the realist, chaos is a thing, right? Like it's not all gonna go to plan. You know, we're gonna have things come in and out and like we just need to communicate about how to deal with that.

Crystal Richards: Well, can I ask you a quick question? Cuz you just said something that I always love to ask. Because you said chaos and sometimes the way that people like to describe project management is they'll say controlled chaos. Do you agree with that? 

Galen Low: I do and I don't. I think the word chaos is kind of loaded, right?

I think people think of chaos and they think of frenzied. And I think it kind of goes to like, oh, like I'm a panicky PM and they're like, no, I'm not. Like, that's not what I do. But I think what I mean by chaos in that sense, it's just like you can't plan on things going one certain way. It's just not how the world works.

It's not how anything works in this universe, something's gonna change. And we'll need to be proactive, but also like productive about solving that problem. It's not like a, right, you wake up and you're gonna go for a run, but it's raining and you're just like in a bad mood for the rest of the day. But versus the mindset of, okay, well, what else can I do?

Like it's raining today, right? And it's just kind of approaching it as a problem to be solved. Chaos is a problem to be solved. Doesn't mean frenzy. It doesn't mean panic. It doesn't mean you're bad at your job. It just means things will change and you have to be the person who's gonna tell people that and reconcile that in people's heads.

Cause otherwise, people think it's scary, frenzy, panicked, right?

Crystal Richards: Oh, Galen, I'm taking this portion of the recording and showing it in my classes. That was great. I love it. And you're absolutely right. And that is the characteristic of a really effective project manager. When you stop and think about, well, if this doesn't go this way, here's another way that we can do it.

And sometimes when everything is just go and you don't think from that planning standpoint, it can feel chaotic. But I was like, yeah, I can put on my Peloton app. I can, you know, just do some jumping jacks. Like it doesn't have to be the end all, be all. There's definitely a way to still get to your end goal of, you know, looking good for the summer. So, I like it. 

Galen Low: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, right? What is the end goal even if a plan doesn't say this. I was wondering if we could swing back on the Project Management Body of Knowledge Guide 7th Edition.

The 7th Edition, like you said, it is a different beast and I know I've like, I talked it to death in my circles, but I was really keen to get your take on it. Because it's different now and it's really interesting and it has these human components, but like in the back of my head, as someone who probably, I mean, I've read it, but I haven't written the exam. And I'm like, how do you test on this? What does the exam look like now? Is this like more about sharing a mindset, but not necessarily like having a multiple choice answer to how to, you know, keep it human? Or is the exam changing?

Like what should people expect if what they were thinking was 5th Edition, 6th Edition? Like has it changed radically ? 

Crystal Richards: It has changed significantly. I have to be careful because we're not supposed to reveal, cuz I have not seen the exam. All I'm privy to is the exam content outline. Word on the street.

Galen Low: Got it. Okay. 

Crystal Richards: Is that it's very situational based, so you will find that on the internet, the interwebs. It is very situational based, meaning they'd love to ask the question, what should the project manager do? And you need to read the entire question to get that context based on your understanding of what's good practice.

So when I gave that earlier example of people are confused about who the project manager is, they're not sure what the whole project is about, what should you do? I personally would be aiming forward answer option that said something related to the project charter. So rather than being a question of what document did you fail to create, it would be more of kind of a global question in that stance.

The scary math that you and I had to go through when we took it based on versions five and four, five and six, earned value management, critical path method. What I will say, people have said to me, I never need to pull out a calculator. And I'm like, whoah. So from my own experience, not from teaching though, I'm just like, eh.

Cause I think actually those are good skills to understand because if you use any type of project management software system, especially those really robust ones like Microsoft Project, Clarity, Primavera, they use those tools and those techniques have earned value management and critical path methods so that you now have an understanding under the hood of those software systems why it's giving you the response or the answer or the result that it is every time you hit refresh.

I still debate how in depth I wanna get into that because I feel like I'm doing my students a disservice. I'm not understanding that. But then again, it's like I'll tell them, prioritize this low on your list though. Like if math freaks you out, you'll be fine. Don't worry about it. But I know like the simulator that I provide them, it gives them math questions.

So I really feel like I'm not doing right by them if I say, don't look at it, and their exam simulator has like five math questions. They're like, well, you say don't worry about it. So I just kind of manage expectations that way. But the 7th Edition is a drastic change. I'll start with that and then kind of weave back into the exam.

It's smaller. The 6th Edition is 700 plus pages and this one is maybe 240 something, 250 pages. I think that was my count. And it's focused on outcomes. I appreciate that. I do, because a lot of people felt that sixth and prior editions were very prescriptive. And you must do this and you must do that.

And plus we had, you know, 49 project management processes that we needed to memorize. They've pulled away from that. So that's a huge shift from what you and I are familiar with. We also, for each project management process, for all 49 of them, we had to have a good handle on the inputs, tools, and techniques and outputs.

So we call the ITTO's. They're pulling away from that. They're not doing that anymore. It's less about rote memorization and understand the situation based on the question and what should you do? And people are like, I don't know what I would do. And then what I always tell them is, you have to be in planet PMI.

So what does PMI say the project manager needs to do? So that's the shift that you need to make in answering those questions is when they ask you—what should the project manager do or what should the project manager do next—it's you gotta finish that with, according to PMI, like this is what PMI says I need to do.

And sometimes where it seems like, well, this is what I would do in real life, they probably have that as an answer option. Don't pick that one. Like, but then there's one that's kind of weird, but it sounds more like the PMI answer. And it's that mindset that you just have to say, especially when you're answering the questions, what is the best PMI answer?

What is the best PMI answer? 

Galen Low: You know, and I used to give that a lot of grief. When I was studying I was like, oh, you gotta think like PMI, even though that's not how it's sound in the real world. But then when you remember that, it's like this is a body of knowledge. It's a global body of knowledge for project managers, period.

So like someone out there needs to calculate, earn value every day. Someone out there is getting asked SBI, CPI every day and just cuz you are not, yeah, right? And I think the one thing that like, you know, to it's credit, I got my PMP and I was like, haha, I don't really need this for what I do. And the next job, I actually needed some of the things, right?

Like I was like, hold on, okay, I get it. You know, you add a zero to your budget, suddenly risk management becomes a lot more important. You add another zero. Yeah. Guess what? Right? Like it's gonna be really important to do these things at scale. And at the end of the day, right, like we touched on it, it's a body of knowledge.

It's a bucket of good stuff that you can use and you probably need to know how to pass the exam, but you may not need to use it every day to be a good project manager. 

Crystal Richards: Right. And to your point, it used to be just the one text. Well, the current exam is based on 12 different references. You don't need to read all 12 references.

And one of them is no longer the 6th Edition. They've taken that off the list. It's the 7th Edition that they reference along with other books that are there, like the Agile Practice Guide. So another added piece that's different for you and I is that the exam is 50% agile, and a lot of people have said it feels more like 60%. And I think because they've also added in hybrid, so that's where it may feel like, well, they added this agile term to also doing something in the traditional project management space.

So they just automatically say, well, this is an agile question. But that's a huge benefit that today's PMP aspirants are going to get that we didn't necessarily get, is learning more of the tools and techniques in the Agile. So big papa Agile, not a specific framework like Scrum. And you know, when people will ask me about what Agile, and this is kind of piggybacking on an earlier question you had, you know, what do you do after you get the PMP? 

If you like the mechanics and the benefits that Agile can provide to your organization, I think it's a good idea to get an Agile certification. Now, which one you get? That just is gonna be on you. They're, unlike the PMP in the US, which is the gold standard, right? Like if you want the certification in project management, that's the gold standard. In Agile, ah, it's kind of like a wonderland.

Like you just have to kind of figure out your time, your budget. And honestly, if there are other people in your organization that have the same agile cert, it just makes sense to talk the same language. That's usually my guidance for folks. I teach the ACP, I love it. I'll be honest, not a lot of people are achieving that, but I do think that they go more in depth.

And it can be just as grueling as the PMP exam experience, right? You have to memorize, it's not open book. Like some of those other exams are, it is a lot more content, but you actually dig deeper than some of the other kind of two day courses that just kind of talk about the events, the roles, and huh.

You have the certification, which I don't, which I don't knock. But it's all, I think, to your point, Galen, you have to actually now apply. So whether it's the PMP, the PMI-ACP, the CSM, you now have to apply those skills and see how it works based on your organization. And some of it you'll have to massage or you'll have to tailor to meet the needs of the organization.

Galen Low: I mean, like to kind of, tee that off, like I did my PMP when it was 5th Edition. I was gonna do my ACP because I was like, there was no agile in my curriculum. Nowadays, you're gonna get some agile in your PMP exam and what you're learning, but ACP is still a step up to dive deeper, have you know, more, whatever complex concepts and language to help you be an Agile practitioner on top of your PMP. But you still might need both. 

Crystal Richards: Yep, absolutely. And the ACP talks about maybe five to seven different practices that are pretty popular, but you know, number one popular one is the Scrum framework, because it's just the easiest to implement.

And I appreciate it for that cuz you can go write in and implement it. So that's where, I get nothing for saying this, but getting the CSM, you know, might be a great avenue if ACP, like I did the PMP, I don't wanna go through that grueling experience again and submitting an application. You don't have to submit an application for this CSM and a lot of people have that credential so you can all at least talk the same language.

Galen Low: Yeah, I think that's a big deal. All right, last question. I'm gonna put you on the spot because something we said earlier about, you know, in some ways what Project Management Institute is doing with the PMP and the exam and ACP, like, it's somewhat confusing. It's changing fast, but like we've been talking about in a world where there are other things, there's other globally recognized credentials, right?

We're talking about CSM - Certified Scrum Master. Google's got their project management certificate. Do you think the Project Management Institute is transforming fast enough to keep pace? And are we in store for more confusing or is it like leveling out, especially as someone writing a book about it?

Crystal Richards: Right. Yeah. I make sure I don't get myself in trouble here. I do appreciate that they have incorporated agile in the content just because you hear enough times people are like, oh, we don't need to, traditional project management is the way of the cave person and you know, we need to be agile. And so I think they definitely were reacting to that.

But it also, with the integration of Agile, I think it also helps people to make better choices in getting the Agile certification. They're a lot more aware and I think it gets them excited. Like first of all, I've been doing agile, right? So they're not jumping into a course, but when they go through the PMP training, and you know, we talk about the daily standups and retrospectives, they're like, first of all, I love the retrospective.

I'm doing that in my own projects, regardless if it's agile. But then also realizing and recognizing I've been doing some agile stuff and I wanna learn more. And so I think always about lifting people up and empowering them to like go further and pique their interest and further in their learning. So I think that they have done a fantastic job with that, from that aspect.

They have added a lot of products and now it seems to be a little bit confusing for people cuz they're like, should I get these micro certifications now? You know, because it's not just the ACP from an agile perspective that PMI has as a product. There's the disciplined agile. And choose your wow. And then I think they're coming out with the construction project management certification.

Yeah. So you know, I think it's definitely trying to have a competitive edge. I think the best way for folks to figure out what's the right credential is to get involved with PMI, whether it is volunteering or becoming a member. I get nothing for saying that. I wish I did, but be careful about chasing the certifications.

I am done. I am good. And part of it is because, and I think to your earlier point that you said Galen was, no one's asked me about this certification. So until someone asks me, you know, do you have the construction project management? And I don't do construction work. I'm not gonna go and get it for the sake of getting it.

You know, there's the program management certification portfolio. I think though it just becomes more of what you want. Just know that it's money, investment for getting these certifications. And it's a time investment because you now have to maintain them. And I've gone through, I'm sure like many listeners, I've achieved certifications where I just let it lapse.

I didn't maintain it. And then, you know, sometimes I do have the buyer's remorse and like, I can't believe I let it lapse. And you just didn't wanna do that. Like if, so just kind of be careful about chasing all the certifications. Is it really necessary for the job? And if you're gonna get the certifications, get your employer to pay for it.

Like put that in your professional development cuz that's money out of your pocket and it can benefit them. And I see the value in that. But I think PMI is definitely trying to respond to maybe market needs. I'm hoping they've sent surveys out and this is what they've heard. But you know, hands down.

Gold standard for project management is the PMP in the US and it's definitely making its mark in Europe. You know, PRINCE2 is the gold standard there. But I see a lot of my colleagues in Europe who have the PMP as well. Really, it's just like what the job description says. What if you're in federal contracting?

That is kind of the gold standard certification if you wanna be the key personnel in that contract, so. 

Galen Low: I love that notion of just get in there and talk to people. Because you know, I think a lot of us are you know, sitting there browsing the website, like it's gonna unlock all the answers, but it might not. Cuz everyone's you know, the wrong person. That's amazing. See, we kept you outta hot water. Nicely done.

Crystal Richards: Thank you PMI for everything.

Galen Low: Awesome. Crystal, thanks so much for hanging out with me today. It was such a pleasure having you on the show. Before we let our listeners go, how can folks find out more about MindsparQ and some of the programs and projects that you talked about, like Indoor Recess and your book and your course?

Crystal Richards: Absolutely. Thank you so much. Well, I would say, number one way, cuz I'm always active on LinkedIn, is connect with me. And you know, if it's like, Hey, I listened to this recording, this podcast with DPM, I'll definitely say yes. Some people, I'm like whatever you wanna connect with me. So definitely put that on there.

And my website is The MindsparQ. That's themindsparq.com. And I do have a link to my website on my LinkedIn page. And definitely on my homepage, if you scroll all the way down the bottom, near the bottom, there's an opportunity for you to sign up for the newsletter. I try to have something valuable every week where it's a tip.

It's something you can do right now, something that you can wait on, especially if you're interested in classes. I'll also highlight the bottom. Hey, I have my set of classes coming up and at the time of this recording I've got two ACP classes coming up. But you know, definitely I have a schedule there. So whenever you think that you are ready to get PMP in 2023, I saw that on their website.

I'm like, that rhymes. So I'll be using that. Let me know how I can help you and I will be so kind as to say if, hey, if you just want some resources to get you started on your way, I know that works too cuz you're a good reference for me. I had a connection where she's like, I don't know if I wanna do your bootcamp.

I'm like, okay, fine. Here's what you need to do. Boo, boom I just gave her this laundry list. She followed to the letter, passed within 30 days. And I'm like, that's how I know the process works. And she said, I followed everything you said. So I'm happy to provide that as well. Cause like I said, if you're like, oh, I don't know if I wanna spend that money, you're gonna be a pain on my side anyway. You're like, ah, I could have done this on myself.

Just take my advice. Here's the boo, boom, boom with the list and you'll be successful as well. 

Galen Low: Straight up. There you go. There you have it folks. Crystal, thanks so much again for spending your time with us. 

And for folks listening, as always, if you want to join a conversation with over a thousand like-minded project management champions, come and join our collective.

Head over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership to learn more. And if you like what you heard today, please subscribe and stay in touch on thedigitalprojectmanager.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.