Jak 3 kierowników projektów odbudowało swoje kariery po zwolnieniach

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Kelsey Alpaio: Hey, I am Kelsey! And welcome back to The Retro on the Digital Project Manager podcast, where we dig into past lessons, future trends, and what they mean for your career. Getting laid off as a project manager hits hard. It's not just about losing a job. It's about the uncertainty. It's about the what's next? How do I explain this on my resume? Should I jump back in or take a step back? Should I try freelancing? It's a lot to figure out, but you don't have to do it alone.

And that's why we're here today. We're sharing a live discussion we hosted featuring three project managers who have been laid off and rebuilt their careers.

There's Nicolassa Galvez, an anti-career coach for people who feel stuck or undervalued in their careers. Having worked in both structured corporate and mission-driven spaces, she brings her candid style to what it really means to move through tough and unexpected career transitions.

There's Thako Harris, a seasoned operations and resourcing veteran with over 11 years of experience in project management. His client roster includes recognizable brands such as Subaru, Noom, GNC, and Comcast.

And there's Nadaa Baqui who brings over 10 years of digital project manager experience. She's spearheaded cutting edge mobile and web applications built for emerging tech, including AR, VR, and AI.

Throughout the discussion, they shared raw stories about their layoffs, what they did afterward, what worked and what didn't, and advice for folks who are currently going through it. So whether you're actively job hunting, exploring new options, or just want to be prepared for whatever comes next, keep listening.

So as we get started here, I do just wanna thank all of our panelists for being here and for being willing to share your layoff stories with us. This stuff is personal. It can be emotional, and it does take a lot of courage to talk about, but as I'm sure everyone on this call knows, layoffs are way more common than we might think. And the more we talk about them, the less isolating they will become. So let's get into it and start at the beginning here.

I'm hoping that each of our panelists could share their layoff story. What happened? Where did you land, and how long did it take you to "bounce" back?

Nadaa, why don't you get us started there?

Nadaa Baqui: Thank you, Kelsey. So first of all, hey everybody. So good to see everyone from all these different parts of the world.

First, I just wanna say DPM has been such a great support for me over the years, and I'm just really glad I can be here to share my story with you today. Just in terms of my layoff journey, things have been slow for a while. Projects were not coming in, and I was a little bit worried about my future at the agency, but I wasn't expecting to be laid off when I did.

It was the summer of 2024. I had just put, been put on this new and exciting project and just like that, boom, I was hit with the news. Turns out the agency was going through a round of layoffs. I was one of the team members affected. It was my first experience with being laid off. And honestly, I was devastated.

I was lost. I didn't know what to do. And I remember the initial days I was just, I found myself like constantly refreshing my emails and just feeling so strange about not having Slack to check, not attending any meetings. I just felt empty and I was worried about my finances. Like I'm a mom, I have a mortgage to pay, and I had heard the job market was just horrible.

I was really stressed out. It really was a lot. I just needed time to process everything. That's something I did. I took that time for myself. It's something I would recommend. If you can afford to please just take that time for yourself. I think it'll help you down the line. So that's what I did.

I took that time and then I. I just worked on my resume, worked on my portfolio. Didn't really apply for jobs because I didn't feel ready. Eventually, later in the fall I landed a role at Skillshare and I think it's here. It was a contract role. The team has just been so wonderful and that just really helped my helped me feel myself again.

I think I'm in a better place right now.

Kelsey Alpaio: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Nicolassa, could you tell us a little bit more about your layoff story?

Nicolassa Galvez: I've actually been fired twice and laid off, so I will share my firing story 'cause it was a project management position. My employer knew that, I was struggling with the role and just because of the middle management, realizing that I love the theory of project management and the process.

But it's a people job and it's about managing people more than managing the project, and I just didn't have that skillset. So I didn't know that I was gonna get fired. It was giving a coworker a pep talk where unknowing to me. My boss was listening in and she took it as a slight to her, the pep talk. And then a week after the meeting called me in after a staff meeting virtually.

Let me go. And then, we were friends, so it was maybe like a three hour conversation. It was really tough. After that I burst into tears and called my partner. Luckily she was there to support us financially. But I know one layoff, it was so painful. I had given notice in my apartment. My mom picked up all my stuff and went into storage 'cause I knew I wasn't gonna be able to go into a full-time position right away.

So I couch surfed. I eventually became homeless for a couple years. But it was so painful that I knew I couldn't go back into the workplace and I didn't know I was gonna become homeless when I started couch surfing. But I did know enough that I gave notice on my apartment, like as soon as I had gotten laid off 'cause I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to afford this 'cause I don't know what I'm gonna do for money, but it's not gonna be going back to a full-time job that can afford, a place to live.

Kelsey Alpaio: Oh yeah. Thank you for sharing that story as well.

Thako, can you tell us a little bit more about your layoff story?

Thako Harris: I went from teaching into project management. I guess ultimately the story is that we lost the client and so then it was hoping if we would win another one. And so in meantime, I was doing all these admin office type, cleaning out the storage room and it was just weird. I guess I suspected something might be brewing.

Yeah. And then my boss scheduled a quick 15 with no subject. And I didn't know at that time that's like a kind of a situation, so she told me the news and then I was like, weirdly comforting her 'cause she was sad and. I'm set, like I'll have no job. Like I'm not, anyway, that was crazy because in teaching it was very stable and I like enjoyed teaching a lot.

It just didn't pay very well. And I thought, oh my God, I made a huge mistake. And they wanted to go get drinks afterwards and I was like, hopefully not hanging out drinking after this. I'm, I don't know what I'm gonna do. So luckily had, I'm a cyclist, so I had rocky kind of things where I'm like going, running on the beach and listening to music and driving dark tunnels.

I don't know, but like that kind of thing. Eventually I had made connections in the ad community and people are super helpful. Like I had, I knew designers and copywriters and a lot of people that were like, I'll keep my ear out. I'll let you know if I hear anything. And a designer friend of mine redid my resume in a really cool way.

I loved and somehow with a talent agency that worked and I got another position with that, which ultimately when my contract was nearing the end, also was a factor I think that hogg me to be laid off. 'cause they didn't wanna pay the, to close out the contract, with a fee structure for me to become full-time there.

So they just, and again, I found myself like really is this what ad agency life is like every year or two in the fall when Q4 performance agencies need to be reported for bonuses for the higher ups? I'm gonna get cut until you reach some level. I don't know. That's what I, my, my thinking was at the time.

But again a lot of connections in the Minneapolis agency world and through cycling. I knew a creative director and his wife was a talent placer. She didn't take a fee I don't recall, and just recommended me to CEO and I got in there and I ended up staying at that place for se almost seven years.

So at the time, every time that happens, you think, oh man, like the first one was three months before I got a new thing. And then the second one was lucky. I was able to find another position in a month. But those times are dark. Like you were saying, refreshing and looking and it feels like gambling.

Like you're going into the digital world, you're sending these things and you have no idea, if it's gonna land or bring anything back, and it just feels like fishing or, it didn't work with the word of mouth, real connections that you make while you're working.

Kelsey Alpaio: It sounds like networking was a big piece of getting that first role.

And Nadaa, you talked a little bit about landing a contract role shortly after being laid off. Can you talk a little bit more about the strategies that helped you most in landing that role, and did you talk about your layoff in interviews? What did that process look like for you?

Nadaa Baqui: I was like, one of the first things I did when I felt ready was I talked to people about my layoff.

At first, I was hesitant. I was a little embarrassed if it's okay to share. But then I quickly realized like I, need to rely on my network. Like you said, Thako, just spoke to my friends about it. Honestly, I spent a lot of hours on LinkedIn. Like I said, I was stopping people just reading their posts. It's true. One of these posts that someone I had worked with previously, right?

Like again, someone in my network that I found my current role. Again I can't stress enough like the importance of reaching out to your network. It's just so it's an extremely useful resource. I had sent out so many resumes, just never heard back, or just if I did hear it back, it was like, Hey, we are interested in you, but do you speak German, Italian, French, English?

And I was like, I'm not Google Translate. I just felt like there was so many expectations. So I just feel like your network, your LinkedIn is really your friend here.

Kelsey Alpaio: That's really helpful advice.

And Nicolassa, I actually wanna ask you a little bit as well, because I know you've transitioned out of the project management world and are doing something a little bit different now. You're working as a grants manager and a coach, so can you tell us a little bit more about the decision to not go for another PM role? Like how did you figure out what you wanted to do and once you figured it out, how did you go from there?

Nicolassa Galvez: I had been doing project management officially, because I love it so much.

It was always part of my role. It was just coming to the realization about how much more it was about people and that, I could build the best systems and have the best, create the best tickets, but if I couldn't manage up with the leader that was assigning the projects, let alone, managing my coworkers wasn't as difficult.

It was more like the managing up. I had to admit to myself that I needed to move on from that role because I wasn't willing to learn the people skills that I think that make Project Manager so successful. And my, the last place that I got fired, they knew it. And I had started the coaching certification while I was working with them.

But then when I had gotten fired, I had looked through, I used the same resume. I have a skills-based resume, and that links to my chronological because I am just not that person that can update my resume. And also, I had a designer friend design it, and it was so gorgeous. That a lot of people accepted the skill-based and were willing to go to my LinkedIn, which I felt I could update easily and more quickly with the chronological and then the skills underneath it.

And I returned to grant writing, which is just a role that's usually more quiet and isolated. And I needed that quiet, I needed that autonomy and that isolation, it's, it hasn't been as autonomous as I'd like 'cause it is a nonprofit sector, which is very overly tight knit, but the self-reflection and making that decision about, do I wanna return to the role, not because I was fired, but was it a fit?

Kelsey Alpaio: Yeah, that makes sense. It does sound like getting a designer friend is definitely on the list of things to do.

Nicolassa Galvez: One thing, a quick advice is indeed, if you're not feeling up for the intense job application process, my current grant writing job was a one button click, sending my resume, not a cover letter, and the resume, the designer friend resume stood out and when you are so tired of job searching deeds, like one click apply feature is just a lifesaver and it works, at least once, you know is all you need.

Kelsey Alpaio: Great piece of advice. And it does lead into my next question here a little bit, which is around the rebuilding process. It's riddled with rejections and setbacks, like Nadaa you mentioned getting no after no. And so I'm wondering what advice you all have for maintaining your confidence through that process? And Thako, I'll throw this question to you first.

Thako Harris: Yeah. This is embarrassing to share, but I like to listen to like gym techno or something like this really hardcore, lift that heavy weight kind of stuff. And then I like go biking and then I usually feel better and I feel amped up and not oh, or because that gets heavy. It gets heavy when you the ghosting, which I think before you'd get a reply.

Thanks for like now auto reply and then it's like we will get in touch with you if, and then it just never, nothing can happen. So that gets pulled quick. But then back to the networking piece, I have found that if there's, and LinkedIn has the third, fourth, fifth layer connection.

If you can find that person to then do a little bit of greasing the tracks for you and because LinkedIn. I used LinkedIn to try and hire, and it was just so much, I just got overwhelmed and couldn't use it. But if someone was like, Hey, I know someone, I'm like, whoa, thank God. Like it's just night and day difference.

Oh my God. Here's someone they know, someone, they've talked to someone. It's a real person. They're not crazy. I know them. They're not crazy. And so it just makes a massive difference. So I just feel like if that, like you were saying, Nadaa, that stalking. Talk to those people and try and start building some even slight rapport that you can over, over LinkedIn and see if they're, maybe not, don't leave with that right away to Hey, will you share my rest?

You probably have to be a little more diplomatic and spend a little time and then, work your way that way.

Kelsey Alpaio: Yeah, absolutely.

And Nadaa, yeah, what tips do you have for, getting past those rejections and those no's?

Nadaa Baqui: I'm not gonna lie, I feel like I needed like my own team of cheerleaders just being like, yeah, you've got this and you can do it.

And there were times, of course you feel very low, right? Like you just don't hear back or response is so limited and you're just, you're really demotivated. It's different when you already have a job and you're applying for another job. It's different 'cause you have things that are keeping you busy.

But when you're, when you don't have, and like you, your regular work going on. It's tough. So I would say to definitely like relying on your network of family and friends is important. And then also just remembering, like just focusing on like the fact that you have a good body of work.

That one rejection is not, doesn't define you. And there are times I would forget that, but it's just like constantly just no. You have years of experience, you have a good body of work in. You can do this. Just being consistent and resilient and just showing up every day.

And then I'd feel like something will click eventually so.

Thako Harris: Yeah, any number of rejections doesn't define you.

Kelsey Alpaio: Absolutely.

I do wanna talk a little bit too about the destabilization of layoffs in both like your career and your life, going through a layoff can feel so incredibly destabilizing, and I've heard elements of that in all of your stories.

And so I'm wondering what you've done to help you regain some of that feeling of stability or does that uncertainty feeling never really go away?

Nicolassa Galvez: No, I don't think it ever goes away. My first time I was fired was in 2012. And it is a personality game. It wasn't a skill. It wasn't like I did something wrong, so I'm still grappling with loving my personality and realizing that it makes it for a challenging workplace for me.

And so that heartbreak, it feels very personal because it is a character. Or I'm really active in the community, and so I have a good reputation. So a lot of times I do get hired through my network because of my reputation or because of my outcomes or what I've built. But then, the day to day of working with me, who's, I don't know, observant, curious, a fixer, it's embracing the, they want what I can do for them, but not who I am.

That is still, such a challenging thing to accept and having to constantly remind myself. But especially as women, we're socialized that our value is in what we do and not who we are. Everyone struggles with feelings of value and I'm sad to say it does get better, but it doesn't go away.

It's still a challenge.

Kelsey Alpaio: Absolutely.

And Thako, I know we've talked about this a little bit as well, and now you know you're doing a little bit of freelance PMing, which has its own elements of destabilization and uncertainty. Can you talk to this a little bit?

Thako Harris: I think I try to keep a schedule for myself of, I build a routine that I just do.

Every day it's the same and I just limit the different things. Because you could just spin in LinkedIn, like you could just spin and spin and like chase down this and that and this and that and this and just lose any sense of you still have to do stuff for yourself. You still have to stay healthy.

You still have to maintain your life as it is. I feel like that helps provide some if I don't know what I'm doing, at least my like structures that I've set up, keep me doing the things that are productive in my life. Wake up and then do this, and then do that and then eat, and then do that, and then check, and then go for a walk and then go back and check some more and then do something else again, and then check some more.

And there's just short amounts of time to focus intensely and then switch and do it again. And then, so I find that helps provide some like feeling of being productive while also, even though those like answers might not be coming, then you can go for a walk and oh, the sun's shining.

Or there's really those small things that make life nice regardless of if you have a job or not. So try to keep those things aware in your life so that like gratitude I guess is the real thing that helps you keep going. I think, when people say, oh, it's gonna make room for better things, and you're like, when people say that to you, you're just like, I know, but you're saying that you have a job.

It's just such a, it's, it is true in some sense, but it's I don't know, I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say with that, but it just feels like one of those isms that people say and then you deal with and until you get a job, like that's an ism, and then in hindsight, it's great, but if that hindsight is not going bad, then you're like, I don't know what you're talking about.

So yeah, I find routines help me.

Kelsey Alpaio: Absolutely. And unfortunately we are out of time here. That time absolutely flew by and I just wanna thank all the panelists again for volunteering your time today and sharing your stories.

That's it for today's Retro. Be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode. And if you wanna keep the conversation going with a crew of a thousand plus project management pros who get it, come join us at thedpm.com/membership. Thanks for listening.