Hoe u in 2023 op de juiste manier projectmanagementsoftware selecteert

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Galen Low: Last week, you lost it at how many spreadsheets your company uses to get work done. You said something like, "If I open one more spreadsheet that has data from the wrong reporting period in it, I will go out and find a better tool myself." unfortunately, you said it out loud. And the right people heard you. And now you're the one who's been asked to lead the search for a better solution.

So you're sifting through marketing material, software review sites, feature comparison charts, and Reddit trying to find the right solution for you, your colleagues, and your executive team. You are wading through hundreds of options, collating hundreds of conflicting opinions. Your wall is starting to look like you might be trying to get to the bottom of a conspiracy - complete with pushpins and string.

Isn't there a better way in this day and age to make the software selection process less painful? If you've been struggling to navigate the vast landscape of project management tools available on the market today, keep listening. We're going to be sharing industry insights and dispelling myths about the software selection process so that it feels more like winning and less like rolling a stone up a steep hill with one hand tied behind your back while blindfolded riding a llama.

Hey folks, thanks for tuning in. My name is Galen Low with The Digital Project Manager. We are a community of digital professionals on a mission to help each other get skilled, get confident, and get connected so that we can amplify the value of project management in a digital world. If you want to hear more about that, head over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com.

Okay. Today we are talking about project management software — not the software itself, but the journey that nearly every organization faces to get from sustained pain to sustainable efficacy through tools and technology. We're also gonna talk through trends, buzzwords, pitfalls, and the obstacles that folks who are in this process will invariably face and how to navigate them.

With me today is The DPM's own lead software advisor and longtime colleague of mine, Joe Ateya.

Joe, it's so great to have you on the show!

Joe Ateya: Hi Galen. Thanks for having me on today. I'm really excited to join.

Galen Low: I'm excited as well. Joe, you have so many insights. I know we'll get into it, but you are somebody who is just so deep into the software world across all sorts of different industries, particularly in project management and organizations that are project based.

So I'm really excited to dig in. I am so eager, and I think you are too just to nerd out about software for a little bit here. But I thought maybe we could just start just by learning a little bit about you. Like how did you get interested in software tools and how do you use that passion to help folks narrow down the just other plethora of options in the market today?

Joe Ateya: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I've been interested in software and technology, but ever since I was at university, really even before that, I was like I really want to work in the sort of technology industry. I love the sort of fast-paced environment that it offers. Both the sort of software side, but the sort of changes to technology that people are facing as well and like how software and, well, software specifically and how it can help people sort of progress and like better their lives really.

So I've been in the DPM side of things now for quite a while. I think I've been part of the DPM group for nearly four years. So I was previously in a company called Crozdesk, which was then joined The DPM group and rebranded under the name SoftwareSelect. So I've been managing the software advice service for nearly four years now. I'm semi self-taught, I mean, in the sort of preliminary days, I managed the projects internally, so I did a lot of project management myself running the program and program management and product management. So it was a combination of all three of them.

Like project management has in the sense that I have to like step by step see what we need to do next. Product management in the sense that I need to see how this product is running and run it in different sprints and a program because it is a program of lots of different projects running at the different time.

But yeah, I've been really interested in software and I'm really interested in how software can help people, both professionally, but also personally as well. There's instances in every case, like just using the smartphone. It's got so much like technology on it, and it's got, our smartphones have got more power on them today than taking the man to the mood and the 1960s.

So we're living in a world where software, we're so reliant on software and it's just I really think it's important to utilize it and you're seeing like the software industry changing so quickly at the moment. But I think certain people might need advice on it. And for me, I just love speaking to people and helping them and using my expertise in software, but also in project management and helping them understand how they can utilize software specifically for managing projects. And that's something I've grown quite passionate about really.

Galen Low: I love that have done the job. You can relate to all these folks who are trying to run projects, trying to run businesses using software tools. And I think it's just such a hugely good point that, like I'm picturing you and uni, whatever, downloading demos of software, just tinkering, right? Reading documentation. And then these days, you talk to anybody and they're like, yeah, I'm just gonna try this app. And they're like, okay, it didn't work out for me. I'm gonna delete it.

It only cost me two bucks, right? Or maybe it was free. And then you like transpose that mindset into like business software and it's just like that mentality doesn't quite connect cuz then you're spending heaps more money, you're doing heaps more change management. And that decision process is just so much more important.

Although fundamentally it's the same idea. It's like we just need to get things done better using technology just like this app I have on my phone. And yet the complexity of software selection in a business context, especially in an enterprise context is just so massively different in terms of the journey, which is kind of what I wanna dig into.

But I love that notion that, software tools, it's something that helps us get stuff done better. And I think that's something easy to lose sight of when folks are like looking at that gamut of okay, all these big software company names, and what am I gonna select? And they're being wooed and swayed by the marketing and the sales teams, and they're getting attracted to features that they may or may not need.

But really it's just what does that need? And like, where's their pain? How can we get things done a little better? But I'm getting ahead of myself here.

Joe Ateya: I think the good thing to like point on that is like a lot of people find that outdated method of using, spreadsheets to be very time consuming.

And I think people looking to use a solution which can help them save time, also give them more structure as well. And I think people just find, using a software really does help give structure to what they're trying to do and structure their projects and like structure their timelines of projects and really visualize what you need to do as well.

So, I'll certainly go over that later on the call, I guess.

Galen Low: I love that. And you know what, like in the past, whatever 10 conversations I've had on this podcast. Whether in the green room or in the recording, we've always been talking about this notion that there are some really large organizations literally running off of spreadsheets and Excel is a powerful piece of software. Google Sheets is fantastic, but to your point, it's just kinda like this smorgasbord of stuff that they needed to record and refer to. But the structure of it isn't necessarily, conducive to exactly what they're trying to get done.

Joe Ateya: Exactly, and I think a lot of the time people just don't know what the right solution is and people just think, oh, I've used this in the past, it's worked quite well, but I don't want to change.

The hassle of changing can be quite overwhelming at times, and people would just find, if it's not broken, why fix it? But then people look like say, oh actually it's greener on the other side, sort of thing.

Galen Low: Right, absolutely. And the hassle of changing that, like that resonates so much. And actually probably a really good jumping off point because like in your day-to-day role, you talk to a lot of people about their software needs, like just day in and day out.

So I feel like you've got this like uniquely qualified perspective on this journey of selecting software and justifying a change and looking at greener pastures and is it actually as green as it looks from over here? But I was just wondering, in this day and age, what are some of the most common types of project management related software that people come to you asking about? What do those conversations look like?

Joe Ateya: Sure. So there's typically, I would say there's around four different sort of sub areas of what people are looking for in the main types of software. So I would start with task management, then I'd divide it to general project management, portfolio management, and resource management.

And obviously there's a lot of different sub areas within that, but I would say that is the four common themes that you'll face talking to people every day. So people who might be looking for task management, they're typically looking for something to structure their team a bit more. They're really focused on trying to say like what tasks are outstanding?

What's been achieved? How can we document this? And this is the sort of people who are looking for more of a holistic approach. They're looking for a catch actual solution where they can manage their general projects, they can get an overview of what they're working on at any given time.

They can also break down what tasks have been achieved, what's pending. And people often try and use a tool which can help organize themselves. And I think that's one of the really key things with this, is improving organizational skills. And in terms of that, I think that's typically, you see that from all size companies, whether it's, a five man creative studio right through to a sort of 20,000 auto manufacturer.

People are trying to become more organized and people are trying to have that sort of more structure there as well. And I think that's probably one of the most common themes regardless of the business and regardless of what they're doing is they're trying to improve their sort of structure and remove that legacy of documenting things on spreadsheets really.

The next stage I would say is portfolio management, which is probably typically well suited for larger organizations. Not to say that smaller companies wouldn't be using that, but it is typically might be the PMO team within a department, and they're trying to get an overview of all of their different projects.

They have a different process than the sort of person who's looking for a general tool because they're not looking at the sort of granular detail of how projects forming. They're looking to identify if project A is aligned with Project B and C, and if they are running on the expected timelines, if they're running on budget.

So it's a lot more analytical, and you see that a lot of the time with larger companies who need more structure. Again, they're typically using something like the spreadsheets, or they might be using some of the old, more traditional project management software. But they're typically looking for a solution which is a bit more automated and something a bit more visual as well, where they can analyze projects and put them on dashboards and then build extensive reports.

I think with portfolio management software is reporting is a very key feature. And I see people looking for something with in-depth reporting, in-depth analytics, where they can really break down what they need to do at a certain time and then help forecast as well. So if they want to forecast performance in the long term, so it's Q1, Q2, we need to say how it's gonna be performing by Q4. They can compare and contrast each quarter and then evaluate that, which typically you wouldn't really see for a smaller organization. That's typically for the PMO teams who want to build that data and then present that to the management team, to make the project management process as lean as possible, I would say.

I did mention briefly about the general project management side, but I think this is something that you're seeing more often now is people want something where it's an all in one place or a tool, which just offers everything currently. So they might have that portfolio management side, but they're also looking for the sort of day-to-day task management.

And that's typically for the smaller and medium businesses where it might be company-wide implementation and they want the sort of capture tool. And that's not uncommon at all. I see that every day that people are looking for something where they can really have something all in one. Because how many times have you used a tool and said, oh, actually, I need something else.

I mean, you probably use tools every day, Galen, and you just find like, oh, I wish it just had a bit more. But there's certainly tools on the market which cover that. And I think finding the right one can be overwhelming at times, but if you find the right one, you'll wish you used it much sooner because actually it's saving you time and it's automating everything.

You can track your portfolio, you can track your tasks, you can track day-to-day operations. You can also use it with, tracking contact information as well. So a lot of the tools on the market have overlap between other software, probably like project management software has quite an overlap between CRM and product management software.

So a lot of the time you can find a solution, which really is a catchall solution. And it doesn't break the bank either, which often people find very useful. And the final sort of subar of project management software, I would say is resource management. And this is typically for medium and larger size organizations, even enterprise organizations will utilize this.

And it will typically be just one department who would utilize this. So it might be the PMO department. It sometimes in larger organizations you have a resource manager specific layer, and this is really about managing the people on the project. So this is about identifying how people are being utilized, their capacity on projects as well, if they might need to forecast when to take on more people as well.

So this is a bit more in depth about putting people onto the projects. And this is about identifying, preventing, like overlap. A lot of the time I'm speaking to companies and they're saying, The constant problem I've got is we don't know when we need to bring on more resources. And they're like, oh, I'm using a spreadsheet and I've got a formula doing this, saying this, but it doesn't actually visualize that data.

So people are like, oh, I need to say this project's at 90%. This project's at 110%. How can I make both of them perform at a hundred percent while simply just take someone off this and put them on that? But it's easier said than done because I think if you're using it on a spreadsheet or just planning on pen and paper, which I see a lot of people still doing.

It can be challenging, but I think once people start implementing a tool for this and they find a resource management software will actually reduce the time they've spent planning people. And project planning is often one of the sort of most time consuming features when it comes to project management, I would say.

Galen Low: No, definitely. We're like resource management is always a topic that people are talking about in our community.

Joe Ateya: Even internally, resource management is challenging at times, I guess.

Galen Low: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Joe Ateya: Who's gonna be available when someone's on vacation or who's gonna be available when the designer's on maternity leave or something. So it's all of these factors, and I think it can be applied in any organization, but that's typically how I divide the four.

Galen Low: In some ways these are like some of our listeners would be like, yeah, those are kind of core business functions. But I wondered if we could talk a bit about trends. One thing that you've mentioned multiple times, in all of those categories, is this notion of structure and this notion of visibility/visualization.

And I just wonder is there something driving people either like kind of environmental variables, economic factors, like business factors that are driving people towards like solutions that are more purpose-built and move away from spreadsheets, even if they've been using spreadsheets for decades and it's been just fine and maybe it's still just fine.

Like what's pushing people towards those categories of software that might be different than it was, 3, 5, 10 years ago?

Joe Ateya: Yeah. I mean people, a lot of companies are now at the stage where they're really trying to digitalize everything they're doing. They're trying to move away from this sort of traditional approach of pen and paper. And obviously spreadsheets are all digital nowadays, but there is still an element of that manual locking onto them.

And people are trying to really move away from like manually locking data so they can prevent just spending like 70% of their time, like uploading things and tracking things and rather spending a hundred percent of their time actually making the projects happen. I think it's like the logistics behind it is what people move towards.

I did see a big change really, especially in certain industries like the construction industry. I would say typically people in the construction industry, they might use more traditional approaches. They might be more like pen and paper focus. They might be more digital. But I definitely see once, we're living in a world where we're, a lot of the world is working remotely now in the sort of post covid lifestyle.

I saw a big trend and people were trying to digitalize this process a lot more, especially when they're not in the office as much or they're working remotely or they're not on site. So people were trying to use a system where they could use it regardless of their location, which often some of the older tools on the market might be on premise software.

So it just means that they could only use it if they were on a desktop computer in the office. And you're seeing a lot of people moving away from that sort of old, clunky style of software where they're now using something on the cloud where they could be in Hawaii on their laptop just typing away.

That is the benefit of using something like this is it gives you a lot more flexibility, I think, but it also gives you structure regardless of where you are. And it's so good to document things. I think especially, and not just the construction industry, but if you're in like a creative agency or a media agency, you can use the software for not just like planning the projects, but you can also use it for managing documents.

So you might have your creative designs and you might have different phases of a design, and you can actually use the software to document and store that. So people really like that it offers, not just the structure, which I mentioned a few times there, but also the visibility into what happens on the project.

But also if you want to just quickly access a file, you can just do it at the click of a button. You don't have to get like permission from someone like, oh, I need to log into this design, gonna have the permission for this. It's just there. So that's one of the great things about it really.

Galen Low: I would love to see a report of just like how much time people spend giving somebody access to that spreadsheet. You know what I mean? Like they have a new hire and they're like, oh, I can't get into that spreadsheet where that has our, portfolio data. Okay, yeah, we'll go in there. We'll grant you access. Versus just having an implementation of a purpose-built software where their role grants them permissions, they have access, so transparency is there.

And I think part of it, I think you raise a really good point about not just remote and hybrid work, but also just this notion of like, how productivity and collaboration looks today. Because I was there, I was, using Microsoft project on a desktop machine, sharing it with no one, like that was my tool.

It was my plan. It was stuff that I was just, putting together and then PDFing and sharing out. It was not collaborative and as a result, folks, I mean, at this debatable, but I don't think Microsoft Project is like a UI that is conducive to involving a lot of people. It was kind of a project manager's tool.

It was kind of like the project manager understands how to use it. We don't need to understand how to use it. Whereas now it's no, let's collaborate. Let's have visibility. To your point about like document management, right? Like I know a lot of teams, they're getting a lot done even just in Google Docs and comments, right?

Where you can assign a task in a comment, and that's all visible work, that's all things people can see. That's all at the ground level in terms of a learning curve to use a piece of software. It's such an interesting shift in the way we work. I mean, the cynical side of it, I guess the cynical side of it would be, some of it's being driven by what you said about remote work and people not being in the office.

And then, between the lines, there's this notion of trust, right? There's these organizations that they don't have visibility because people aren't physically in the office. So how do we know if they're working? Oh, I know, time tracking software, task management software where I can see somebody's to-do list, blah, blah, blah.

There's always the cynical side, but I think on the more optimistic side. It's like we're kind of cross training every day. We're seeing the way we work, we're seeing how our colleagues will approach problem. We're seeing the discussions, but also it's like information overload, and I think that's why time is more precious now.

Is because that time I spent giving access to a spreadsheet, I could have used that time to do X or Y. Right? And it like that value is so different now in terms of yeah, what a waste of time. I could have, used that time to make a greater impact on the business. Whereas maybe five years ago that was okay.

It was like, yeah, part of my day is granting access to a spreadsheet, and that's fine. Like the urgency wasn't there. But I think now there's this like fervor of collaboration and fervor of productivity and fervor of getting things done in an organized way.

Joe Ateya: Yeah, definitely. And I think you touched a bit there about Microsoft Project.

I think, it's still a market leader and a lot of people swear by Microsoft Projects every day. But I also hear on the other end of it, like people have used Microsoft projects and they only use it because they, that's all they know really. But, I mean there's over 480 different tools on the market and there is a lot of tools which differ quite considerably from like Microsoft Project, I would say.

And it's the main thing I find with people using Microsoft Project is that it's either a bit too clunky to use. The interface is quite outdated. They haven't actually done an update for their software and at least 20 years, like the interface is the same as it was in the early two thousands, which for software is a very long time.

People don't own houses that long a lot of the time. So to own, to have an interfaith, which is from the early two thousands. It's a long time, I think.

Galen Low: They almost can't change it.

Joe Ateya: Exactly. I think the main thing people look for is that they want something that isn't still as manual as something like that.

Because a lot of the time people saying to me, oh, Microsoft Projects is great at doing this. However, it's not good at exporting this and this, or it's only compatible with other Microsoft products. Which actually a lot of the tools on the market now are trying to focus more on integrating with other software.

I know internally we use so many different tools, we use like Slack for communications, but like certain other tools offer that integration, but other tools don't as much. But I think it's, I think that's really a key thing when it's comes to choosing the right software, it's how it feels. Cause a lot of the time I say to people, this tool's gonna have exactly the same layout as this tool.

It's gonna have the same amount of functionality. I think the ultimate position is how it feels when you're using it. Does it feel easy to use? Do you save time? Is it like making your products perform more productively, I guess. So that's probably really key thing to consider, and that's probably something that is universal I would say, regardless of industry.

Is does it save me time? Is it easy to use and is it actually gonna be adopted by the other employees? Because a lot of the time you see like management in companies regardless of size, like saying this is a really good tool. It's got all of these features. But actually it's not adopted widely because it's just either not easy to use or it has functionality which might dissuade any members of the team.

And I spoke to someone and just a week ago, actually before I left on vacation. I'm back now, but just before I left, they're saying I've used this product for six years now. But unfortunately it's not widely adopted across the company. Why? Oh, it's just they didn't like the layout and it has everything they need, but they didn't like the layout.

And that's a really big point when it comes to using software, I would say. On that topic, I would say when choosing software, I would say, if you're going through that sort of demonstration purpose, I would say to maybe bring a few of the team along. People that would be using it day to day, because that's gonna help you.

You're gonna get a feedback session, so you might meet with four or five different software vendors, go through demonstrations. If you're doing that on your own, even if you are like the PMO director, if you're going through that alone, it's good having that feedback from your team. You can communicate on what you like, what you didn't like about the software.

But also how it will be used and how your team can utilize it. I think from the very second you start like visualizing different demonstrations with tools. You'll say, actually, oh, I liked this about product A. I didn't like that about product B and so on. So that's a really key feature I would say, when trying to make that decision. That's something you should look at.

Galen Low: It certainly adds complexity, but it's a really useful perspective that yeah, when you're selecting software, just understand that you are not the only user, right? And I think coming back to that notion that this is now productivity and collaboration software more than it is traditional project and resource management software.

That's it's it's a shift. It's a shift in thinking. It's a shift in the whole journey itself, and I think it that might be jarring for people and what they expect it to be doing. They're like, I'm gonna evaluate stuff. I'm gonna do the research. I'm gonna make a decision. That's a task that's been given to me. That's my responsibility to take on a loan versus, no, actually, the whole point is to coordinate a decision to build consensus to, drive change management.

Joe Ateya: Have you ever implemented a software platform?

Galen Low: I have, but I've never been like, I was never the sole accountable person for it, but I've definitely been part of that process. Which I mean, and I guess that is telling in and of itself in the sense that I was involved in a collaborative process.

So I've only really seen that side of things versus, I mean, I guess I've been on the receiving end of it. Right? Hey folks, we just changed our software from software A to software B. Starting today, don't use that thing anymore, use this new thing that we haven't trained you on. So I've been on the receiving end of that, so I know how that feels.

But yeah, for the most part yeah it, all the software selection projects I've been working on have been just, collaborations.

Joe Ateya: I'm almost like the biggest challenges you face whilst doing that.

Galen Low: Oh, man. I mean, yes, obviously sorting through the features and trying not to get too excited about a feature that we just don't have a use case for.

We're like, oh, but this one has this thing. And we're like, yeah, but what are we gonna use that for? And like analytics and visualizations I think is one of the ones where it's but we could have this view and just pausing and being like, do we need that view? But then will we need that view?

Right? And it's just like you have to think about now, you have to think about before, you have to think about after. And so it's a big thought to wrap your head around. And then I think the other thing is just all the different use cases I mean related I guess to features, but really just corralling all the different use cases. Because, frankly, especially when I was involved in those projects, we didn't have that good of an understanding of what everybody else did that will need to use the software.

That I think is a little different now because we have more transparency, because we have more visibility. But arguably folks who are still, working using tools they've used for a long time more archaic tools, I guess I would say, or spreadsheets, maybe they don't have that visibility of what everyone else does.

And so it sounds obvious, in a demo, in a sales pitch, right? To be like, all these things are awesome. And you're like, that's great. We have all these things. And then, weeks down the road, someone's yeah, but I need that, I need this data point in order to do my job. And we're like, Ooh, we never really thought about that.

So even just developing that understanding of how everybody works, how everybody will use the tool and what their needs are, like it's a deep rabbit hole. On the surface it's like bing bang boom, get the comparison table up and we'll just make a decision this afternoon over tea, but it's absolutely not that. The biggest challenge was misunderstanding how big of a process it is.

Joe Ateya: And I think that's a very good point that you've touched on there, because that is something I hear every day when I'm speaking to people. Exactly what you've just said, it's trying to narrow it down. It's trying to understand do we really need the feature?

And I think sometimes just speaking to someone and going over that in front of the depth and saying what do you need? What do you not need? What would be nice to have? What's essential? And just pinpointing that and then really finding a tool like that is probably what people find most useful from what I'm doing.

I'm helping people. I have knowledge in every sort of corner of the sort of project management software. And every day I hear people saying, oh, there's just so many on the market. Oh, I don't know which feature we need. Is this necessary? Is it gonna be adopted? Is it likable? I hear that every day and I think that is something that is so common.

So you're certainly not alone to think that. And then I think it's actually implementing as well. Like sometimes people are a bit overwhelmed because they know software can take months to implement. Sometimes for enterprise companies, if it's like an ERP system, it can take over a year to implement, which people really find like overwhelming.

They're like, oh, I don't wanna do that. But it really doesn't need to be that long. Like some of the tools from the market complete off the shelf solutions, you can just pay for the licensing and then it's set up and they'll offer one-to-one like explanation of how it works. So I think if you are worried about the implementation period, don't be. Because I think it's so different now than it was, say, even three years ago, companies are really trying to move away from this long like implementation line and they want to make it so it's just easy to use off the shelf solution, which most of the tools on the market now really focus on.

But yeah. Definitely, I think that is one thing to consider when you're carrying over this.

Galen Low: I think it's a, it is a massively good point that, you're talking to people every day who are have been given this responsibility and as a result have been given this anxiety about the process, the challenges, the implementation.

But I think it's a really good point that sometimes there's just these myths around the process. And I talked about, the other side, the myth that this is an easy decision. But what is the other side? What are some of the things that people bring to you and they're like, I can't sleep at night because of this thing. And you're like, oh, don't worry because this.

Joe Ateya: Yeah, I mean, it's off. It's quite rare that people are losing sleep over the software, but I certainly know what you mean though. It does cause a lot of stress, especially when it's like things I would say people are most concerned about if it's gonna be adopted. But secondly, if it's going to be actually improving productivity.

I think people action versus reality is very different. It's like something might be all glossy and it might have this sort of like great marketing like campaign, but if it doesn't actually work as it as you expect it to, then it's not gonna be widely adopted. So that is probably something that's gonna be the biggest concern.

And certainly like you might have like senior project managers like saying, oh, let's adopt this, but then management might be a bit more reserved and they're like, I've tried that before. Is it gonna work? Sometimes you have to try it. Sometimes I definitely recommend researching it in depth because, company A's user case is gonna be very different than company B's user case. And it's like something might work for one person, but it's not gonna work for everyone. So it's really about and I think with those cases, it's if you're trying to do like a large scale implementation, maybe adopt it for a small team first.

So you know, if it's just your, creative project design team, maybe just adopt it in that team to start with and see if it's successful first. And if it's successful, we roll it out a bit further. Because if you're saying, oh, we're a company of 5,000 employees and I'm gonna test it on 50 employees, that's gonna give you a lot better sort of success rate than, doing it company-wide, finding it doesn't work and then going back to square one again, because.

Galen Low: It's a massively good point that it doesn't have to be wholesale change.

Joe Ateya: Exactly. And I think step by step, make sure you know what you're doing, make sure you've researched it, and make sure you feel comfortable using it, but also your team feels comfortable using it. Cause if that's the case, your company's gonna be happy as well.

Galen Low: Fair. I love that. And even just to tie it back to something you said earlier, this sort of anxiety around adoption I think is very valid. And then I talked to some folks and, there are some, what I consider to be myths around the fact that, yeah, the software implementation company or the software vendor is gonna sell you a thing and then disappear.

But to your point, like a lot of software companies have recognized that, have rebuilt their businesses around that so that the notion of what they might call onboarding or setup is actually more on the consulting side. It's listen, maybe it's not perfect outta the box, but this team is going to help you.

We're gonna walk you through, we're gonna learn about your business and we're gonna help you get to that point sooner where this is tailored to your business and we're not gonna disappear. We're gonna support you. And I think a lot of folks that I talk to, they just, they're under the assumption that they're gonna sign a contract, and then the only thing they'll hear from these folks after that is just getting invoiced.

Joe Ateya: Yeah. And that's true and that is something. A lot of the time, the companies are, they do care for you. They do want to make your, they're not just there to take your money, but they are there to help you. Like when at work, I guess they want to make sure that you can actually use the tool, that you're gonna adopt it widely, that your team's going to adopt it.

So they will, they will help you go through that. They will often, especially for most of the time, companies larger than sort of 50 employees, they do typically have dedicated account manager so they can go over that review. I know for larger companies they have, the largest of software companies actually have like implementation consultants and they also have people to help you guide through the process and set you up and train you on it.

But also you see a lot of the time companies don't really want that anymore as well. So it works for some people. It doesn't work for everyone. But I think adaptability is really important. So test it small before you wide it out completely I would say.

Galen Low: I wanted to swing back to something you were talking about earlier, just the number of options on the market. And obviously, your job is to know a lot about all of these things, but how do you keep up with it all? Like what tips do you have for folks just trying to keep their finger on the pulse in terms of software capabilities and the trends and all that?

Joe Ateya: I read a lot of different blogs across the internet. I read our internal blogs as well, actually. I read what, I do read what the DPM publishes, but I also read different things on different sources.

I read things on like tech publications. When I'm speaking to people as well, actually, I'll understand what they've looked at in the past. Sometimes they tell me things I've never heard of, so I'll try and research that as, as soon as people tell me. And you hear that most commonly when it's like software, which is specific to a certain geography.

For example, like the Indian market alone has 45% of the software on the market, and it's exclusively for the Indian subcontinent. So it's like people will say oh, I'm using this tool at the moment. I'm like, oh, I've not heard of that, but I research it and I read about it and I go on their forums.

I also go on Reddit quite a lot as well on, comes to like software pages because people love to talk about their success stories on stuff like Reddit. But I talk to people. I'm part of a PMI community on LinkedIn as well. So it shows you what's trending. I'm also part of software like for project managers community as well.

I speak obviously a large part of like my job is speaking to people who are not just project managers like PMO directors, PMO managers. So you're speaking to these people every day and you're like understanding what's trending. You're understanding like in their industry, what's the change? And you do see common themes.

I think I've highlighted most of the common themes I see already. But I mean, I highlighted it because it is something that I see so often. But people are really trying to use a tool which can be adopted across the company, I would say as well. Biggest challenges I face that I see people like facing, I guess, change people.

Not everyone likes change and sometimes change isn't always the best option, but most of the time they find using a software actually does help, reduce admin. Sometimes it's just reducing admin is one of the key things because I, every day I have so much admin to do. I'm like, ding ding.

If I can use something which is gonna reduce the admin I mean at the moment we, everyone's talking about like ChatGPT and how it can reduce time and I guess that can be applied to software as well. If you can use a tool which is gonna automate things and it's gonna reduce time, like why is that gonna be a risk? If you test it and you try it and it works for you, why would it not work companywide?

Galen Low: I love that. I, I mean, what I love about that is it's about connecting the dots, not just from whatever software feature sheets. But from conversations analyzing that and understanding that enough with the notion that, yeah, option A might not be the right option for this other company.

And just synthesizing that into, for lack of a better word, advice. Right? That's the advisor's role. But I love that it's not all just like the technical side of things. It's like hearing the stories is about hearing what people have to say, what their complaints are, and just figuring out where the right fit might be to guide people towards a software solution that works for them, that will likely work for the broader organization as well.

Joe Ateya: And I guess they'll finalize a bit about like how I keep up with that I guess. Like I just read the news. I read about software trends I read on LinkedIn. I follow companies that I hear quite regularly oh, this person keeps mentioning this product a lot.

Like, why is that? And then you realize, oh, actually this is trending for a reason. They've been acquired by this company, or they've merged with this company. And you see this all the time, like behind the scenes, people are like, oh, I was previously speaking with this solution, but they've changed their name now.

Why is that? They've changed their name because they were acquired by this company and now they've got this. Like a really good example of that is something like Clarizen, which got acquired a few years back and then they basically got acquired by Planview. And then they adopted all of Planview's project management tools, which Clarizen didn't have before.

And they became this sort of Alpha product basically, where it was like Clarizen's reporting and then Planview's like detail. And they merged the two together and it was quite a good success story and you see that quite often in the software industry as well. So, read about it, and that's for me is something I'm quite passionate about. I've always been interested in it anyway, so the more you know, the easier it is to help people, I guess.

Galen Low: I love that. One thing I glossed over before that, maybe we should touch on, how can people tap into your expertise? How does your service work and like how do people benefit?

Joe Ateya: Yeah, sure. So we are free to use service. We help companies all over the world. So if people need support, we're happy to help you. If you need support, I'm sure there might be a link in the bottom, or you can schedule a call with me at your convenience and we can go over your options. Typically we suggest looking at four or five software vendors at any given time.

We'll guide you through which tools are best suited on your user case. You can tell us your problems, the problems you are facing. We try and evaluate what you're looking for, your budget, like we'd only match you with software if it was in your budget. But on top of that, we only want to make sure that the software we're recommending to you is actually gonna be used.

And if it's something, it's gonna be adopted. Cuz I hear every day people saying, Oh, I've tried it before. It didn't work. Okay, well, I'm not gonna recommend that tool. Let's look at something, which will work for you. But yeah, our service is free to use. We're completely impartial. Like we don't favor any specific tool.

We try and recommend you based on the best fit, and we try and help you get demonstrations with the software vendors that relevant to you. And if you need support on that, then do feel free to reach out. I think there'll be a, we'll include a little link on the bottom of this podcast where you can, you can go over that with me in further depth.

Typically, 15, 20 minutes is all I need. And if you have any questions specifically, you can email me at Joe@softwareselect.com as well.

Galen Low: Amazing. That's so valuable for folks. That's so much access and yes I'll add it to the show notes for sure so people can tap into all the knowledge in your brain from just staying abreast of all of these things related to software in these industries.

That's super cool. Joe, thanks so much for hanging out with us. It's been so cool having you on the show. Thanks for sharing about, what you know and all the insights from the conversations you have day in and day out, and I hope folks got a lot of value from this. So thanks again so much for spending your time with us.

Joe Ateya: My pleasure. Thanks for that Galen. Great to speak.

Galen Low: Alright folks, there you have it. As always, if you'd like to join the conversation with over a thousand like-minded project management champions, come join our collective. Head over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership to learn more. And if you like what you heard today, please subscribe and stay in touch on thedigitalprojectmanager.com.

Until next time, thanks for listening.